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Test de deux lecteur blu-ray !

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 10:20:23

Okay... hope you guys all had a great weekend. Hot as blazes here in The OC, but that seems to be the trend everywhere these days.

I wanted to check in this afternoon with a bit of an update on Blu-ray Disc. As I reported on Friday, I was having troubles with the HDMI output on the Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. Actually, I was having three separate issues. The first was what I consider to be subpar picture quality on several of the first Blu-ray Disc releases. The second was a problem with the HDMI output feeding video to my Panasonic projector properly at 1080i resolution. The final issue, is what I consider to be a problem with the BD-P1000´s HDMI output video quality in general. All of these were rather vexing.

Fortunately, on Friday afternoon, I was able to spend a couple hours at Pioneer Electronics with Chris Walker, the company´s Manager of New Technology. He invited me to bring my Samsung player and a few of the first Sony and Lionsgate discs over to their offices here in The OC, to take a closer look at some of the quality issues. Pioneer is understandably concerned that people don´t judge the quality potential of the Blu-ray Disc format by just a single player and the first few discs, and I was happy to have a chance to compare the performance of the Samsung Blu-ray player to Pioneer´s yet-to-be-released Elite BDP-HD1.

We began by connecting both the BD-P1000 and the Elite BDP-HD1 to a pair of side-by-side, matching 50-inch plasma displays - Pioneer´s new Pro-FHD1 Elite plasma, that´s fully 1080p compatible. We connected the players to the monitors first via HDMI, selected full 1080p resolution (which both the Samsung and the Pioneer are capable of delivering), and used an identical test disc in each player to play back MPEG-2 encoded footage of Disney´s Chicken Little (we photographed a nearly identical setup playing the same disc at CES in January). I had told Chris that my first impression of the Samsung player was that the video image lacked some of the detail I had expected to see, and that it wasn´t fully delivering all of the color and contrast information encoded on the disc either. Sure enough, that was the first thing we both noticed. Colors and contrast (particularly color) from the BD-P1000 just seemed more subdued compared to the same image delivered by the BDP-HD1, and some of the fine detail in the image was also missing. The difference was rather dramatic. It´s almost as if some kind of high-frequency filter is being applied, or as if the Samsung player is doing some kind of extra signal conversion before it sends the signal out via the HDMI connection. It´s not the connection itself, because as Chris confirmed, both players use the same HDMI hardware and chipset. So it has to do with the way the Samsung player is processing the signal. By the way, to confirm that what we were seeing was really an issue with the Samsung player, and not the plasma displays, we swapped the displays connected to each player and sure enough, the video quality issues migrated to the new display.

To test something that I suspected might be the case based on my experiences with the Samsung player, we next connected the BD-P1000 to the display via the component output, and selected 1080i resolution. As I suspected, and to Chris´ surprise, all of the problems with the video signal just disappeared. Suddenly, the video being displayed by the Samsung was MUCH closer in quality to the 1080p HDMI output of the Pioneer. Colors and contrast were VERY close to identical - colors just popped off the screen - and fine image detail was significantly improved on the Samsung side (although still not quite as good as the Pioneer - the difference was about what you would reasonably expect between analog component and digital HDMI connection, along with an interlaced image versus progressive scan). The upshot is, if you own a Samsung BD-P1000 and you want to experience the best possible image quality - quality that closely approaches the full potential of the video signal encoded on the disc - you NEED to be viewing via the component output. Now, that´s troubling given that protected digital HDMI is what everyone in the industry is encouraging people to use. Yes... the Samsung is capable of delivering full-resolution 1080i video to your display via component. Like all Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, the player must be able to read the Image Constraint Token flag on the software if the studios choose to turn it on (and thus disallow full-resolution analog playback). However, the good news so far is that neither Sony or Lionsgate has chosen to exercise this option yet (for that matter, neither have any of the HD-DVD supporting studios either).

By the way, the scaling problem I was having between the Samsung and my Panasonic LCD projector via HDMI at 1080i resolution wasn´t happening with the Pioneer plasma. It also isn´t happening at any resolution via the component outputs, so it´s definitely something endemic to the way the Samsung and my projector handshake via the HDMI connection. I´m hearing a few reports from other Panasonic projector owners who are having the same problem, so it´s not just confined to my specific model of projector.

While we were conducting our tests, Pioneer´s Senior Vice President Andy Parsons joined us for while. We continued sampling various Blu-ray Disc titles from Sony and Lionsgate, along with some other film demo material, including one clip that was encoded in VC1 format. Those of you who are interested in how Blu-ray displays VC1 material will be pleased to know that it looks absolutely spectacular. Unfortunately, I can´t talk about the specific clips we saw, but it wouldn´t be fair to compare Blu-ray´s VC1 quality to that of HD-DVD at this point anyway, especially not from a single short clip. I will tell you, however, that one specific piece of test footage we looked at (in MPEG-2) was hands-down the single most stunning high-def video I´ve ever seen. I´ve seen a lot of HD video in my day, but NOTHING this good in terms of detail, color, contrast and lack of compression artifacting. I have no doubt that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc are capable of delivering video quality of this level eventually, but I´m betting full-length movie discs this good won´t start hitting store shelves until mid-to-late next year... when the authoring and compression folks have had enough time to really hone their wizardry with these formats. The same was also true in the early days of DVD, of course, and compression quality has only gotten better since 1997. I suspect the same will be true with HD. Suffice it to say that when the average video DOES get that good on HD-DVD and Blu-ray, there´s going to be something said for the argument that once you experience that kind of HD quality, it´s hard to go back to regular DVD.

Anyway, I left Pioneer feeling a LOT more confident about what I was seeing from the Samsung player. I know now that the picture quality the player delivers via HDMI is significantly inferior to that of its component output, and I know that Samsung´s 1080i component output comes very close to delivering the full image quality encoded on the discs. I also have a better handle on the software quality issues - what´s related to disc compression or to transfer issues. As a result of this, I´ve begun to evaluate the first wave of Blu-ray titles with all this in mind. I´m also going to compare the Toshiba´s HD-A1 player´s HDMI output with its component quality, and begin seriously reviewing the first several waves of HD-DVD titles with a more confident eye as well. Chalk it all up to the kinds of critical re-training you need to do with any new video format. C´est la vie in this industry in the 21st Century!

Rest assured, however, we´ll check back tomorrow with a full update of all the latest standard DVD release news, and we´ve got a number of standard DVD reviews on the way as well. Also, we´ve got a big (and long overdue, we know) update of the Upcoming DVD Cover Art section nearly ready, and Todd checks back in with a new Doogan´s Views column this week as well. So stay tuned...!

Lecteur de pioneer est de biem meilleur qualité que celui de samsumg mais le test qu´il ont effectuer sur le samsung est bien + positif que le precedent test !

kenouko
kenouko
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 10:23:18

je pense qu´il serait mieux d´attendre les lecteur de prochqaine generation , il me dise rien du tout pour le moment

Ryosaeba68
Ryosaeba68
Niveau 32
27 juin 2006 à 10:45:20

tout a fait !

d´apres ce que j´ai compris a la fin, un des 2 lecteurs delivre en meileur signale en component qu´en HDMI , ce qui est un comble !

après là je suis pas sur mais j´ai l´impression qu´il esperait mieux des lecteurs blue ray, mais que finalement le lecteur HD DVD s´en sort aussi bien voir mieux ! ! c´est à vérifier ça, dans la phrase suivante : "and begin seriously reviewing the first several waves of HD-DVD titles with a more confident eye as wel"

de toute façon, pas de surprise, les premiers lecteurs seront approximatifs niveau qualité, et les suivants seront meilleurs !
A noter que les reglages joue beaucoup entre 1080I et 1080p etc...

je sais pas si le grand public va aimer devoir chaque fois faire gaffe a ses reglages !

kenouko
kenouko
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 10:49:58

je trouve quand meme que c´est une belle arnaque , metre plus ou moin 1000€ pour un lecteur pas terrible c´est une honte

j´espere qu´il vons redresser la barre dans les mois qui arrive

Ryosaeba68
Ryosaeba68
Niveau 32
27 juin 2006 à 10:54:04

bah c´est toujours comme ça

au debut ça coute cher pour rentrer beaucoup d´argent par rapport aux premiers investissements !

les mecs blindé de tune et qui veulent acheter tout ce qui est nouveau sans savoir forcement ce que c´est acheterons quand meme, et ça lance le marché !

ensuite la qualité augmente, le mec rachete un nouveau lecteur et hop le cycle continue !

après c´est le prix qui baisse et là ça devient accessible !

suffit de revenir en arriere et de regarder les prix des premiers ecrans plasma, qui coutait dans les 50 000 francs (je dis peut etre une betise là mais je dois pas etre loin)

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 10:55:43

vaut mieux attendre les lecteur br de sony !

kenouko
kenouko
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 10:56:49

oui je sais bien ca , mais je trouve ca debile d´etre 2 fois plus chere que la concurence et de faire deux fois moin bien , c´est conne si une megane couté plus chere qu´un porsche

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 10:59:17

ou t´a vu que le lecteur de BR de pioneer ou de sony est moins bien qu´un lecteur hd-dvd ?

kenouko
kenouko
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:01:00

sony je dit pas il est pas encore sortie

mais pour le moment avec ce qu´il y a sur le marché , il sont effectivement moin bon dans tous les testes

1230_leretour
1230_leretour
Niveau 27
27 juin 2006 à 11:02:02

ya pas des traduction des deux test ?

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:04:01

Le pioneer a l´air tres bon c´est le samsung qui est chelou :lol:

kenouko
kenouko
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:04:34

pour un prix pareille c´est n´importe quoi

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:11:22

If you look into the article the guy said "that one specific piece of test footage we looked at (in MPEG-2) was hands-down the single most stunning high-def video I´ve ever seen"
"In MPEG2", the problem is not the codec but the cpacity of BD-ROM single layer is too small.
From what I know MPEG2 is much better then any MPEG4 base codec on keeping the quality of video.
THis was tested by Hollywood studio, that´s one of the reason all digital master are store in MPEG2.
The first wave BD has one big problem, them should have been on double layer disks not single layer.
Most of them are under coded, running at bit rate lower then required.
And samgsumg player is just no good too, I never turst samgsumg they are nearly as expensive as sony and panasonic.
But the quality is about as good as the new china or taiwan brands, which is bad.

:lol:

Ryosaeba68
Ryosaeba68
Niveau 32
27 juin 2006 à 11:17:48

ouais le samsung est a jeté !

par contre en général samsung fait de la qualité pour un prix correct, n´abusons pas non plus !

sinon apparement l´encodage joue un role important dans l´affaire, ça aussi ça sera optimisé avec le temps

kerpatte
kerpatte
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:23:12

un des gros défaut du hddvd c´est de proposer moins de place que le br! pa

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:24:32

oui le samsung est a jetter pourtant j´aime bien certe marque , bien sur l´encodage est important

kerpatte
kerpatte
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:25:14

pas fini... lol

par contre le hddvd est moins chère... donc les balances s´équilibrent

de toute façon seul les compagnies de cinéma vont décider quel format va vaincre...le mieux c´est d´attendre les lecteurs multi formats hddvd br.

Ryosaeba68
Ryosaeba68
Niveau 32
27 juin 2006 à 11:28:15

mouais mais un lecteur multiformat BR à 1000euros + HD DVD à 500 euros, ça nous fait la platine a... allez je fais un prix 1400 euros

c´est encore plus cher ^^

kenouko
kenouko
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 11:30:52

oui il serait plus judicieux d´attendre les platine multi format de qualitée

de toute facon il y aura pas une tonne de titre HD et BR eb shop au debut

Toxa_s_brother
Toxa_s_brother
Niveau 10
27 juin 2006 à 14:11:05

Intéressant, les premiers disque Bluray ne serait pas en double face et cela aurait obligé les studios à faire des compromis sur la qualité des vidéos. Et certains codecs ne sont pas encore pris en compte.

D´un autre côté le HD DVD manquerait de films, il y a quelques studios qui ont reculés leur sorties voire annulé leur sortie.

double couche pas double face
c´est sure qu´entre les premier film bluray en simple couche et mpeg2 et des film qui plus tard pourait etre en double couche et en AVC-HP bien maitrisé y a de quoi avoir pas mal de difference de qualité

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